33 minutes ago by PragmaticPulp

> Everyone knows kids consume your time. But what people without kids may not realize is the extent to which people with kids want their time to be consumed by them.

This is one of the hardest parts of parenthood to communicate to non-parents: Yes, children demand a lot of time and attention. However, as a parent you actually enjoy spending that time with your children.

To the author's point: Different people will want different balances between time spent working and time spent with kids, and that's fine as long as it remains a balance. There are different ways to divide up time and attention that don't require sacrificing everything for the children. It took me a while to learn that having both parents available on demand 100% of the time isn't necessarily great for the child's development as they grow up. Dropping your kid off at daycare is hard the first few times, but watching my child have fun and develop relationship skills with other kids and people was eye-opening. There are many ways to split the load between parents that are fine in the end.

It also helps to remember that "they grow up so fast" is cliche, but it's true. The most demanding early years of child raising fly by quickly. I don't mean to downplay the effort involved, but the situation continues to change as they grow up and become more independent, eventually spending more time at school, on independent activities, with their friends, and so on.

It's very difficult for anyone trying to balance demanding startup needs with demanding infant needs, but I also know many people in the startup world who simply had young kids and did startups at different stages in their career rather than overlapping the two. There's nothing wrong with working for a relaxed, big company while your kids are young and need attention, then switching gears to startup mode after they're more independent.

2 minutes ago by silicon2401

> It also helps to remember that "they grow up so fast" is cliche, but it's true. The most demanding early years of child raising fly by quickly.

It blew my mind when I heard someone say "kids are only toddlers for a couple of years". As a kid you feel like childhood lasts an eternity, and their developmental stages are so significant, but in comparison they spend less time at each phase (infant, toddler, little kid, etc) than most people spend on a bachelor's degree. I can't imagine how fast the time must feel as a parent, and it helps put into perspective for me why it's difficult for them when kids grow up, since it's not necessarily intuitive to think of their growth in terms of quantitative time.

20 minutes ago by ravenstine

I think a lot of that comes from parents often expressing all the negatives of parenthood rather than the positives. Even the ones who love spending time with their kids, in my experience, talk more about how much attention the kids need, taking them to school, the diaper changes, the crying, and so on. This isn't to say that all parents are like this; I've met some really passionate parents, and my parents relished raising me. But in interpersonal discussions as well as popular media, parenthood is usually portrayed as a chore and even a "whoopsie".

9 minutes ago by jakear

I think that’s generally true of all descriptions of activities — we simply prefer to list the bad, as commiserating is more socially acceptable than “bragging” about how nice something is. See also: chewing fat over how work sucks rather than how happy you are to be working on interesting stuff, “the ol ball and chain” not how nice it is to have stable relationship, “fucking landlords taking all my money” not convenience of having someone else pay for repairs and assuming risk, etc.

an hour ago by anotha1

The focus on "start-ups" here, while not exclusively, does sway far toward the VC-model, of course because that's also YC's model.

Is that model nearly incompatible with parenting? It might be. But that doesn't mean that there aren't parallel eco-systems of "start-ups" for those with various lifestyles (I know, lifestyle b**** is a dirty word here.).

14 minutes ago by PragmaticPulp

The hypergrowth, VC-funded startup model virtually depends on founders and executives investing 100% of their time and energy into the company. With most startups trying to capture new markets, if you don't give 100% then your competitors will.

Obviously any job that requires 80-hour works isn't going to be compatible with spending a lot of time with your kids. Like you said, there are plenty of other businesses and business models that don't have such onerous demands. They may not become the next unicorn and VC darling, but they leave room for a more normal life outside of work.

38 minutes ago by loxs

I think they are quite incompatible. Me and my wife have a 1y4m old and we mostly don't do anything else nowadays. Other than that we have (had?) a startup that is now mostly on hold, except for some hacking that we do now and then when one of our mothers is around.

We are very lucky that we are mostly financially independent from before our son was born, otherwise I would have to go work in an office and it would be a lot harder for my wife to look after the baby.

23 minutes ago by bladegash

I really do not mean any offense by this - but how is a nearly one and a half year old requiring full-time attention from two people?

I ask this as a single dad of two kids, one of them since they were < 1.

13 minutes ago by cle

As a counter example, my wife started a company when she was pregnant with our second child, and then raised millions of dollars in her first round when the child was a few months old. The company is still going strong and she is prepping to raise another round. And our child is a beautiful, happy toddler now.

43 minutes ago by haolez

There is a very cool startup in Brazil creating a startup accelerator meant only for moms. Check it out if this interests you: https://www.b2mamy.com.br/

38 minutes ago by intergalplan

> I remember chatting with a woman at a work event one night and asking if she needed to go home soon because of her kids. She replied, “No, I see my kids on weekends.” I couldn’t help but cringe thinking about what it would be like to only see my son on weekends. It seemed horrible!

If you work 9-5 (really 8-5 most places) this is basically true anyway. Most of the time you get with them on weekdays may have some quality just for existing, but is really pretty poor. Rush around in the morning, send them off to wherever, get back home at 5:30 or later just in time to throw together or eat dinner (depending on whether your spouse stays home), then bed-time routine, or they run off and do their own thing for an hour or two (friends, bike riding because god knows they don't get enough time outside at school for e.g. basic eye health, homework, whatever) while you try to get the house in something resembling order for the next day, then bedtime routine.

Any way you slice it, weekday time-with-kids for someone with a normal job is pretty crap. If you're a super-parent you might be able to make some of it a little better or more valuable. Finding maybe an hour a couple nights a week is doable, especially if you shift all your clean-up into your "alone time" and basically live kids, cleaning, and work all your waking weekday hours (ugh, no).

If you're in the founder set and see loss of weekday time as a huge sacrifice, then I'd guess you're paying someone to handle a bunch of the bullshit in your life. At least regular cleaners and maybe you don't do much of your own cooking, and possibly you have one of those kid-chauffeur services. Ordinary working people don't spend a ton of quality time with their kids during the week. Again, seeing them at all may have some value, but you're not gonna hang out undistracted by other life-junk for any serious length of time.

Weekends? That's where the good times are. Morning and evening weekday hours are just too eaten up with trying to get by. About the best you get is a smooth routine that's at least not a negative experience for all concerned.

29 minutes ago by willcipriano

> Ordinary working people don't spend a ton of quality time with their kids during the week.

Quality time was a invention of the in-retrospect rather entitled parents of the 1970s who justified their neglect with the idea of "well I don't spend much time with my son but when I do it's quality time!".

The truth is kids, particularly young kids just want time. They want to see you around and have you take a active role in their lives. You can be around and clean the house and cook dinner at the same time, have the child help. Kids would much rather have a parent who sits on the couch to watch TV with them for a half hour every night then one that takes them to Disneyland one Saturday a month.

EDIT - Jerry Seinfeld on the topic: “I’m a believer in the ordinary and the mundane. These guys that talk about ‘quality time’ — I always find that a little sad when they say, ‘We have quality time.’ I don’t want quality time. I want the garbage time. That’s what I like. You just see them in their room reading a comic book and you get to kind of watch that for a minute, or [having] a bowl of Cheerios at 11 o’clock at night when they’re not even supposed to be up. The garbage, that’s what I love.”

7 minutes ago by TchoBeer

I could just as easily say that quality time is actually a useful metric and as a kid I definitely would've preferred a parent who spends more time with me on the weekends and wasn't "just around". Maybe I could bring a quote from a comedian too. I don't see what any of that would bring to the conversation though.

36 minutes ago by panzagl

>Any way you slice it, weekday time-with-kids for someone with a normal job is pretty crap.

It's not crap for the kids, and that's all that's important.

32 minutes ago by intergalplan

Right, being there at all has some value, but both the quantity and quality of actual time with them, rather than just near them but entirely distracted by other life-crap, isn't high.

I'm just saying that "I mostly see them on weekends" isn't that drastic, IMO (and I suspect it was a bit of an exaggeration anyway). Weekends represent like 80-90% of the time that I'm not just badgering my kids to get stuff done so their room's clean / we aren't late / they don't look like we don't provide them real clothes / they don't entirely wreck the house / they don't get hurt. The hours during the weekday are high-friction and low-freedom because they fall around transitions.

[EDIT] of course, again, having a large amount of money can enable one to buy one's way to much higher-quality weekday time with kids, that may be a factor. If you don't clean or tidy (much), if you don't have to cook to provide healthy food, if the kids have an actual nanny(!)—if any of that's true, then I'm sure the character of that time at least can be very different, if you don't instead use that extra liberty for your own non-kid purposes.

23 minutes ago by adwn

> [...] get back home at 5:30 or later just in time to throw together or eat dinner [...]

I generally get what you're saying, but the difference between

a) sharing dinner with your kids, putting them to bed, and reading them a bed-time story, and

b) not seeing them at all in the evening,

is huge.

16 minutes ago by SECProto

I have fond childhood memories of my dad on weekday evenings: card games; scrabble; quick swims in the ocean; sneaking out of bed if he made nachos late at night.

Of course I have weekend memories too (more of the above, plus also trips/camping/whatever). But they actually stand out less in my memory than the almost-habitual kind of weeknight stuff.

14 minutes ago by djoldman

Kids' affect on work life is an important topic.

I think it's possible that male, man, men can be substituted for female, woman, women in this article and have it be just as true except for this:

> But what people without kids may not realize is the extent to which people with kids want their time to be consumed by them. And, on the whole, I’d guess women more so than men.

I have no data on that.

26 minutes ago by alex_young

Here’s the thing - you shouldn’t have to choose between a career and having children.

In the US we’ve created a set of incentives which work to put women at a disadvantage in the workplace if they become parents. Men, not so much, and largely because of this imbalance, even progressive couples fall into this paradigm.

In the EU they mandate equal paid leave for both parents and require holding a job for them when they return to the workplace [0]. This means that not only are parents given the opportunity to share actual parenting, but also that their children wind up with better care by their actual parents for the vital early months of their existence.

It’s time the US adopted such protections and embraced them culturally.

[0] https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/human-resources/workin...

2 minutes ago by undefined

[deleted]

36 minutes ago by danielovichdk

Man or woman...

It's egoistic to get kids and if you really can't spend the time needed with them, that's pretty egoistic too.

25 minutes ago by bonoboTP

> It's egoistic to get kids

It's egoistic to breathe oxygen, to drink freshwater and to eat food too.

20 minutes ago by lainga

I think the point of GP is - water won't hold it against you for being an absentee parent (imbiber?).

19 minutes ago by ravenstine

Aren't those more about the id than the ego?

26 minutes ago by lstodd

A kid is a startup. Running multiple startups is paralles is inefficient. What else is new?

23 minutes ago by bryanrasmussen

>A kid is a startup. Running multiple startups is paralles is inefficient.

I guess, because if you have two startups of about 6+ years of age you can't just tell them to go to their room and play and leave you alone. hmm, maybe a kid isn't a startup after all.

13 minutes ago by tstrimple

Honestly if you've been running a startup for 6 years and it falls apart if you aren't directly involved, you haven't built a very stable company. Much like if your six year old can't cope alone in their room without you for a time, you've likely not raised a very stable child. If either requires constant attention, you haven't put the right systems and controls in place.

Daily digest email

Get a daily email with the the top stories from Hacker News. No spam, unsubscribe at any time.